So, taxes are meant to reflect real-life costs of running a racing/breeding stable (feed/tack/staff/etc), as well as “stabilise” stable finances so that barns don’t end up crazy rich.
The first point seems pretty decent as far as taxes/fees/etc.
The second point, however - I’m not so sure. For my barn, my budget went down about 25% from January 1, 2016 to January 1, 2017. However, I have enough money (and have done for years being a big stable for most of the game’s history is lucrative).that I don’t really notice taxes much. I’m guessing it’s similar for the other “big money” stables.
So, thoughts on how this can be improved?
taxes spread out over the year, perhaps? If taxes were done on a monthly basis rather than annual, people wouldn’t be/stay broke for the first part of the year
different tax system?
lottery system to funnel money towards poor(er) players? (this would have to be well-designed so that you don’t end up insta-rich, though)
other ideas?
Key points are:
want to maintain realism as much as possible. So no nixing shipping fees, jockey fees, entry fees, etc.
want to keep this fair to everyone. Right now new members get discounted taxes for their first year - perhaps extend this to two years? But no more than that.
can also modify the starting amount stables get (currently $250,000) to reflect the added fees in the game, but I worry that new members would go on a spending spree if handed tons of cash to start
I might be blowing this out of proportion, but in case I’m not, do you have money problems, and if so what would help fix it? And if not, would you like to change anything else?
I could fix my money problems by buying less ponies, particularly broodmares! On a more serious note though I quite like the idea of paying a monthly tax rather than once a year. I’d just have to remember to spread my breedings out though rather than having them all done over one or two months. I tend to run my racers reasonably consistently so I don’t think they’d make too much of a difference.
An advantage I can think of for the monthly taxes vs. annual is (I presume) we would not be taxed for a horse we no longer own. I know come the end of the year there’s several horses I’m taxed for who have been gone from my stable for ages. I don’t think there’d be a massive money difference here (x-amount charged for ‘Brownie’ once a year vs. x-amount charged for ‘Brownie’ for the x-months you owned him should be the same). But it’d look cleaner.
It would definitely force a change in breeding habits, as Imagine points out. All I can picture is frantically trying to meet tax demands on a monthly basis versus once a year, haha.
I am in the fortunate position where I don’t have to worry about Taxes anymore, however, remembering back to my first year in FF, I definitely had to Budget my finances to make sure that I had enough at the end of the year to pay my Taxes.
Good arguments could be made for both leaving Tax collection to the end of the year or doing iton a quarterly or monthly basis.
Perhaps a simpler thing to do would be to add another line to the Training Statistics box on the Stable Info page, something like Current Tax Liability, which would show us what we would have to pay in Taxes at any point in the year. I know we can go to Stable taxes and see that, but, if you have limited time everyday to spend on the game, you might not take up some of it to see what your current Tax Liability is.
Having spent time at both ends of the spectrum (and thankfully didn’t feel the sting this year), I would say that a lack of information has never been the cause of my being broke come January. I always KNEW I shouldn’t spend that way, but always found sale horses/auctions too tempting, and hoped my string could make it up before the end of the year, which they never quite could do.
Inactivity or continuing to hold on to ponies that aren’t making money for you is what really hurts - that minimum fee that you must pay even if they haven’t earned a single penny for you. If you’re truly worried about people going broke in the spring, maybe try making it a flat percentage tax fee? So long as your ponies are earning money for you, that would never be a problem.
Then it just comes down to money management, which is a good life lesson.
In real life, you are able to pay your taxes in a quarterly manner - maybe give that option? Or a semi-annual?
I like the idea of the taxes being every month for the realism. Right now, it’s like you put your stable expenses on a credit card that you pay once a year, while paying for your credit card every month reflects real life a lot more.
I’m not personally struggling with taxes as a player because I keep my playing very comfortable in that I have a minimum amount that I’m not allowed to let my finances get below, and this amount is WELL above what I pay for taxes every year since I have so few horses (for the amount of time I’ve been playing.) I know that this is impossible for larger stables to do though, so maybe the monthly instead of yearly tax would help them?
I also like the idea of extending the newbie tax discount for two years. Since this game is run in real time, you’re still a pretty new player after a year is over. And taxes on year two being not being too high wouldn’t scare as many players away after their account is suddenly flushed. Which is another point for monthly instead of yearly; not so sudden/scary for newbies. I remember being intimidated by the yearly taxman when I was new.
EDIT: Oh, and I meant to ask, what would qualify was poor(er) for this lottery system?
I like the idea of only being taxed by month for racehorses instead of a flat fee of 5000 because if you only own a horse for 6 months then you should only be caring for them for that time which would be half (2500). Also in addition to that the new stable is then taxed 5000 the instant they buy the horse which is kind of redundant. If a horse changes hands a few times in a year that’s a lot of money going into one horse for care.
I like the idea of also taxing just the ones you own, like stated previously if you sell a horse but get taxed for him the whole yr, an he goes around like Holly said everyone’s paying for this one guy.
Not sure i can afford the monthly taxes right now, but with the ones I’ve sold no longer eating up I’m not sure how that would hurt.
I have a big stable but not much money, breeding to my home boys has saved me bunches this yr. maybe a quarterly tax or even 3 times year would be a good thought !
I made a suggestion about 3 or 4 years ago about getting a rebate on you taxes for your shipping costs. As shipping is an expense, it should be claimable in your tax return. ( I’m not sure how the tax system works in America). We got a rebate the year I suggested it and it certainly helped, but I don’t think it has been paid since.
This is done automatically. If you look on your taxes page you should see different numbers (for some horses).
Horse Starts Earnings 10% Flat Rate You Pay
As You Like
4
$65,000
$6,500
$5,000
$5,955
The $505 saved reflects the fact that I’ve spent over $50k this year in shipping As You Wish. It’s not a ton of savings, but it is there. (I think it takes 10% of your shipping fees and subtracts that from the horse’s earnings, so you save about 1% of your shipping fees off your tax bill.) These numbers could be adjusted in the future, though (since 1% really isn’t much).
I like the idea of monthly or quarterly taxing, makes much more sense and would add to the realism, it would also fix some of the anomalies we see now.
Also broodmares should be a flat fee, makes no sense to tax you more because of the stallion you have put her to they all eat the same after all
I’d be against funneling money towards poorer players, we all started once (I only got $50k!) and had to budget out way through.
One way to reduce some of the money in the game is to remove some of the restrictions on auctions like spending or horse limits.
I have no problems if stables end up rich, It’s part of trying to mirror real life after all.
No. I’m for the continued restrictions on auctions. It levels the playing field and gives newer/poorer stables a chance to compete with big stables outside of the select auction. Perhaps instead have 2 select auctions with a smaller catalog, so there’s more competition for each horse. Or do one that’s like the Keeneland Yearling sale?
Like many people, I’m also for the monthly taxes.
I’m not sure when you started, Andy, but there have been a lot of new (cost-adding) features added that make it more difficult for newbies who are learning via trial and error. Perhaps, Shanthi, give them a starting budget that’s lower, maybe $50k or $75k, and then give them a monthly allowance ($20k?) for a year.
I’m definitely up for this. I don’t see why I should pay more for Mare A if I send her to an expensive stud whose fee I’m already paying for. Almost seems like a deterrence to breed to horses with higher fees because then you get an extra tax on it. It’d be like paying taxes based on race entry fees.
I agree with the broodmare tax suggestion BC there’s only so much you can do for a broodmare to encourage a successful birth and like most stables they will apply those efforts to all mares. We already pay an inflated rate on weanlings and yearlings dependant upon stallion fee. Maybe put a cap on it…also for the weanlings and yearlings since why does it cost more to care for a race horse than a w/y in some cases.
This makes sense. I’m also willing to have a flat fee for weanlings/yearlings, though the argument there is that you’d treat babies with better bloodlines (e.g. more expensive sires) better than standard care. (e.g. give them a stall rather than 24/7 turnout, better quality feed, etc). Putting a cap on it would work, too. (Say, $3,000 for babies.)
I’d be fine with having multiple select auctions. Perhaps a racehorse one and bloodstock one?
Shanthi - I disagree, maybe down the track once they have raced a bit they would get lower care but before they have raced? … they are all champions regardless of breeding!
Cat - I started in 2009 (game time) so yes there’s been plenty of added costs such as shipping.
Still it makes you be realistic about placing your horses after all I’m not shipping horse A across the world for that maiden race in England am I like we used to be able.
I’m not always about a level playing field either after all life isn’t like that but if we have to have restrictions then maybe it should be on the number of horses purchased, not on a $$$ fee such as we see now with the $100k ceiling.
Maybe that needs to be raised anyway? It’s fairly often we’ll see horses bid straight to $100k by a number of stables, whats to say that horse wouldn’t have brought $500k if the ceiling was higher?
Regardless, I’m far from one of the richest stables, if anything this would disadvantage me as I couldn’t compete with some of you guys!
I’m not saying “lower” care for the cheaper studs’ babies, I’m saying “higher” care for the expensive studs’ babies. So it’s assumed that, as standard, weanlings/yearlings get 24/7 turnout with shelter options for bad weather. Plus vet care, hoof care, etc. That’s pretty standard for raising a baby.
For your super high-end baby, though, maybe you molly-coddle them a bit. You buy them a blanket in the winter (which, going by my personal baby-raising experience, they then wriggle out of and stomp all over ). You buy them that fancy leather halter with nameplate. You clicker train them. Basically, you go that extra mile.
$100,000 was picked because it’s within reach of most stables (especially now that you start with $250,000). Not that a new stable would necessarily blow half their budget on a single horse, but they could, if they want. If the ceiling were $500,000, a lot of stables wouldn’t be able to consider bidding (new and established).
being a big stable for most of the game’s history is lucrative).that I don’t really notice taxes much. I’m guessing it’s similar for the other “big money” stables.
they all eat the same after all 
). You buy them that fancy leather halter with nameplate. You clicker train them. Basically, you go that extra mile.