What would you like to see in the future?

General
21

Just FYI, this is making them stricter. :wink: Right now the requirement is 1 Gr 1 win and 10 total SWs.

So what I have thought of doing is a flat % on what horses you’ve bred have won. Say, 1% of what horses you’ve bred have won for up to 20 races (or perhaps 2 racing years, whichever comes first). The trick, of course, is that if you sell your future SW to someone clueless who spends 2 years racing them on all the wrong surfaces/distances/etc and they earn nothing, you get nothing, even if they end up going on to win millions when their owner becomes non-clueless.

(The other trick is that this money would basically come from nowhere, which kind of bugs me from a reality perspective. Perhaps FF could have a pool of money from entry fees, though, and it could come out of that…possibly even to the level of detail like Social Security…you get out what you pay in. So if you have a string of 30 racehorses and spend, say, 100k/yr on entry fees running them, you can get up to 100k back on the other 50 horses you bred and sold who are running races. If those 50 horses are extra amazingly awesome and you “should” get 200k as your breeder fee, though, you don’t get that extra 100k unless you spend it in entry fees.)

22

FYI, while this is certainly a bug, I have not seen that it affects the horse’s finishing position at all, just the margin displayed. What is most likely happening is that your horse is running out of steam and gets passed by all the non-out-of-steam horses. So that’s why I haven’t spent the time looking into it seriously, because it’s mostly cosmetic.

Like I said, in the works. I could decrease shipping fees, I suppose, but they’re pretty realistic (if anything, they’re low compared to RL), so if I were to lower them I may as well waive them altogether, and on that, see my above post.

I may do both, though I think part of the “per year” requirement for mares should include an outside mare limit. So, for example, if the requirement is 10 mares, for the grace year (and maybe one more year after that) you can have those spots count purely with your own mares. After that, though, you need at least 5 of those mares to be owned by other stables.

23

Ooooops, once again I’m having trouble getting what I want out on paper. Yes I agree that my new on is more stringent. I do think that if you want ot go with second and third place finished into the mix of 10 stakes races your not ruling out that 1 fluke grade 1 win. Maybe add some Gr.2 and 3 wins into the number as well…

24

Well, right now you can have a fluke Gr 1 win and still qualify…the 9 other wins required prove that the horse didn’t just have one good day.

Like I said above, I think the new requirement (if implemented) would be something like:

  • Must have at least 7 stakes wins, including at least 1 Gr 1 win
  • Must have at least 10 top 3 finishes in a stakes race, including 1 2nd or 3rd place finish in a Gr 1

So, for Gr 1, you need at least one win and one 2nd or 3rd place finish. For Gr 2/3/Ungraded, you need at least six wins and two 2nd or 3rd place finishes. (For a total of 7 wins/10 top 3s in stakes races lifetime.)

Does that make sense?

25

I really like those guidelines. I think it will still keep the quality of stallions high, just not like top 5% high though :slight_smile:

26

Am I understanding the proposed new guidelines correctly? There are two ways a horse can qualify:-

(a) If the horse has a Gr 1 win, then it only needs six more Stakes wins at any level.
(b) If it doesn’t have a Gr 1 win but has placed 2nd or 3rd in a Gr 1 race, then it needs nine more Stakes Race top 3 finishes.

For example:-
[color=blue]GCh. Cool Thief has a record of 64(52)-8(7)-2(1)-3(3)-6(4), including 4 Gr 1 wins. He would qualify under (a) - He also has 11 top 3 Stakes finishes so would have also qualified under (b).

[color=blue]Ch. Card Trick has a record of 22(13)-5(3)-5(4)-2(1)-3, including 1 Gr 1 win. He would not qualify under either condition as he doesn’t have 6 other Stakes wins, nor does he have 10 Top 3 Stakes finishes.

[color=blue]GCh. Blue Smoke has a record of 22(17)-9(6)-5(5)-5(3)-0, including 4 Gr 1 wins. He would not qualify under (a) as he only has 6 Stakes Wins, however, he would qualify under (b) as he has 14 Top 3 Stakes finishes, including at least 1 Gr 1 2nd or 3rd Place.

[color=blue]GCh. Prince William has a record of 39(24)-7(3)-12(8)-5(4)-7(4), with no Gr 1 Wins but 4 Gr 1 Places. He would not qualify under (a) but would qualify under (b).

I do have one concern with these proposed guidelines. What would be the ruling on a horse (call him [color=blue]Devil’s Advocate) who has a Stakes Win-Place-Show record of 5-3-2, with at least 1 Gr 1 Win but no Gr 1 2nd’s or 3rds? He obviously wouldn’t qualify under (a) as he doesn’t have 7 Stakes Wins, and, strictly as written, I think he also wouldn’t qualify under (b), because, while he has 10 Top 3 Stakes finishes, he doesn’t have any Gr 1 2nd’s or 3rds. Is that deliberate or is this scenario one which you hadn’t considered?

If I have correctly understood the guidelines, and subject to a ruling on my [color=blue]Devil’s Advocate example, I think that they are very good.

I have a couple of horses that I am trying to get qualified as Stallions and, if these new guidelines were implemented, they would already be qualified. Obviously I realize that the new guidelines won’t be put in place right away and may not even be implemented by year end but whenever you decide to implement them, you have my vote for them.

BTW - Have you ever thought about putting a restriction on Fillies/Mares becoming Broodmares, not as high as for Stallions. maybe something like 3 SW’s or 5 SP’s?

27

No.

A horse needs:

  • 6 stakes wins at any level, and 1 stakes win at grade 1
    AND
  • 2 stakes 2nds/3rds at any level, and 1 stakes 2nd/3rd at grade 1

Cool Thief would qualify thanks to 7 stakes wins (including 4 grade 1) and 3+ stakes 2nds/3rds (all grade 1, as it happens).

Card Trick, Blue Smoke, and Prince William do not have  7 stakes wins, so they don’t qualify.

Your hypothetical Devil’s Advocate horse (could’ve sworn there was a horse with that name at one point) would not qualify because he does not have 7 wins. He also wouldn’t qualify if he has no 2nd or 3rd place finishes in a Grade 1.

Bare minimum:
Stakes wins: must be at least 7
Stakes 2nds + stakes 3rds: must be at least 3
Within that…
Grade 1 wins: at least 1
Grade 1 2nds + Grade 1 3rds: must be at least 1

So…

Stakes Record (All Grades)Stakes Record (Grade 1 Only)Qualified?

12-7-1-2-23-1-0-1-0YES

12-7-1-2-23-0-0-1-0NO (Gr 1 win missing)

12-7-1-2-23-1-0-0-0NO (Gr 1 2nd/3rd missing)

12-5-1-2-23-1-0-1-0NO (7 SWs missing)

12-7-1-0-23-1-1-0-0NO (2nds + 3rds < 3)

Your stallion must qualify FIRST based on stakes performance overall and THEN on grade 1 performance, for BOTH stakes wins AND top 3 finishes. (Note that 4th place finishes in stakes races don’t count for anything.)

28

Wouldn’t that be a problem though if a horse runs in say 10 stakes races and wins all of them including a G1 and then obviously has no graded stakes place/shows. I might be completely confused but wouldn’t that mean the horse isn’t qualified?

Hope I’m making sense. lol

29

Looks that way, doesn’t it.

Shanthi - I have four horses that are close to being qualified. Based on your post, it looks like 2 of them would be qualified and 2 wouldn’t.

                            W-2-3              W-2-3
Horse                  (All Grades)      (Gr 1 Only)     Qualified?
Cool Thief            7-1-3                4-1-3                Yes
Golden Text          7-10-5              2-0-0                No - Needs 1 Gr 1 2nd or 3rd
Native Justice        5-0-4                1-0-1                No - Needs 2 more Stakes wins, any grade
Slip In The Mud    9-5-3                3-3-2                Yes

Am I right this time?

30

I could only go for that if a win could be substituted for a placing. It would be silly, in my mind, for a horse with 8 Stakes wins and 2 seconds and thirds to not qualify…because he won too much?

31

Really, the rule should be stated as 7+ wins and 3+ finishes in the top 3. So 10 wins with 0 2nds and 0 3rds would still count. :wink:

Would also count. :slight_smile: Basically, the rule stays the way it is with some flexibility…rather than 10 stakes wins with a Gr 1 win, you can substitute up to 3 of those races with a stakes 2nd or 3rd (but if you do, you need at least one extra top 3 finish in a Gr 1).

So if:
Stakes win total >= 7
Grade 1 win total >= 1
Stakes top 3 total >= 10
and
Grade 1 top 3 total >= 2

you’re good.

You could qualify with 10 Grade 1 wins, 9 Ungraded wins + Grade 1 win, 2 Grade 1 wins + 5 ungraded wins + 3 ungraded 2nds, etc.

32

Personally, I’d rather just judge stud eligiblility on wins alone. My preference is to just keep it simple like that.

33

The problem I have with that is that it lowers the restrictions a lot more…you could race your stud for 8 years, he could have 1 fluke stakes win per year (and never finish close to the front every other time), and qualify. Granted, that’s unlikely, and one could argue that if he’s good enough (even on a fluke extra-awesome day) to win 8 stakes races he should be qualified for stud.

34

I took the pleasure of reading this thread…as a  stable that started of well buying( I am more on the breeding side of the game) I love to get extra money on the Handicapping. However it just takes too long for me to do anymore. I have not found any easier way to do it! I go though the race lists pick my horses writting them down then I go to the fourm start typing with a few saves in between so it does not time out. I would like to see the Handicapping done. I know you have been working on it but it would be the biggest help.
As for the one saying that mares should have to do something the same as studs…sometime the lines do not make a good running mare but her foals are great…something to think about!
Well thats my two cents worth! ;D

35

Aha! I get it now.  :stuck_out_tongue:

36

We don’t need reduced shipping as the fees are realistic, who would ship a horse to the US to race in a maiden? It’s just not feasible, practical or realistic. Only stakes level horses would be shipped around the world to race.

What you need is more races in England. I just did a quick search and there is only about 350 races each year in England, compared to even Australia where there is a tick over 1000.

I’m based in Australia which has a 3 month shut down  ??? (we race 7 days a week, 12 months of the year here) and only travel my ‘good’ racers for the exact reason as I can afford to just send my horses willy nilly around the place, I’d go broke quick smart.

37

EXACTLY my point, But I have no stakes level horses, what do you suggest I do? Only play 4 months of the year? Leave the game? I have NO OPTION but to ship and loose money. When I chose my home track I had thought to leave horses in the US at whatever track they are racing. I did not think that there would be such an issue with NE that I would have to send them home so often. I used to be able to leave them at the track for 6 months or so at first but now I notice a clear downturn in performance after about 3 races.

In the English season there are as you say there are only 350 races. Many are stakes races so I have few horses worth entering in them. I usually have all my 2yo to race there as it really is a waste of time shipping unproven babies to the US. There are very few 2yo races in England and all only allow 1 entry for each stable. That is why I have put so many 2yo up for lease. At least I get some chance to see how they run and some members get another baby to play with.

I am still in the game now ONLY through the generous help of other members, and I am deeply grateful to them. But I’d rather run my stable on my own, but the game rules have defeated me. I worked out some time back how much it would cost me in shipping per year to run my horses properly. I think it was about 800,000. If I pay for my shipping with real money so I can be otherwise on a level playing field, and I allow 100,000 for what most stables will have to pay for internal US shipping. (just a guess)  I have to pay 700,000 extra, that equals $140 real money just for shipping. Maybe not much to some, but more than I can pay for a game.
I have been hoping for the resting stables to be implemented, but Shanthi has been too busy with real life to be able to deal with it and as I am the only stable with problems, its not going to be a priority. I keep my fingers crossed that I get one or 2 good runners soon so they can keep me going, haven’t given up yet :wink:

38

Penny, You can ask around for somebody in the US whose Farm is near where you horses are currently racing to “Lease” your horses for $0 and then to ship them to their Farm for a period of time to get a rest. Then when you think they’ve had a long enough rest, You can request early termination of the Lease and ask the person to please ship the horse back to the racetrack before accepting the early termination. I’m sure that many people will be glad to help. I have been very grateful to Vivek of Renegade Racing in Australia who has helped me out immeasurably with this, even though it costs Vivek $100 to ship my horses to Renegade and then another $100 to ship them back to Australia. I wish there was a way that I could repay this but don’t think there is. I would be glad to help you out except that my Farm is near Churchill Downs and there are even fewer races there than in England. If you (or anybody else, for that matter) ever plan to race any of your horses at Churchill Downs and want them to have a rest beforehand, let me know and I’ll be glad to board them for you. Just set up the Lease and either PM me or set up a Post in the Forum. I check the Forum a number of times everyday so I’ll see it pretty quickly.

39

It is a top priority (tied with swapping horses to/from flat/SC racing, which seems to be the other popular upcoming feature). As you pointed out, though, real life has greatly hindered my time to code.

That said, I have been making some behind-the-scenes progress on the stables feature, and hope to finish it up over the holidays. I’ll be leaving my job at the end of the year, as well, so in January I should have time to work on it. (Between moving house and looking for jobs abroad :wink:)

Edited to fix a typo

40

Oh, and the reason Aus and England don’t have full seasons is that Aus takes a break when England is running. If/when we get large enough to fill a full season’s worth of races in each place, I’m happy to add more races.