I just like how this has gotten to this when the initail question was why are some contacted and not others about the pricing of their horses. If someone doesn’t deem a horse worth a certain price then that person doesn’t have to buy it. HEck everyone could believe that the horse isn’t worth the price, and then the owner would have to either decide to keep the horse, or lower the price. Just like in real life.
I guess I should ad that contact from someone wanting to see if they can offer you another amount is fine.
If that was your original point, then the answer is:
Free speech
If I personally have a problem with the price you’re setting for a horse (“you” being a general term, not you personally), I may decide to e-mail you and ask you why you set that price, if I have the time/energy/inclination. That’s not to say that I’ll ask/force you to drop your price, or anything, but mostly because I want to hear justification of the price.
The reason for this? Protectiveness. :roll: Some of these prices are feasibly within a new(ish) member’s budget, and new(ish) members aren’t generally familiar enough with the game/bloodlines to know what’s worth $100k and what’s not. So when I see a 5yo stallion who’s won 1 race as a 2yo and managed to place 3rd in 15 starts this year up for sale for $150,000, I’m concerned that someone may think “Oh wow! A stallion! Maybe I can get him qualified!” (Which is a whole 'nother sore point with me, since as Andrea/Kerry stated above, stallions are SO much easier to deal with when you don’t own them).
I’ll also step in when I have a personal interest in the matter. I’ve sold a few horses to a certain stable, and they were making deals to get other horses…totally fine. But I did ask them to let me know if they were no longer interested in owning the horse(s) I sold them, because I still liked them, and I’d rather pay money to have them back (and thus enable said stable to buy different horses) than to see them get shuffled around from owner to owner and probably end up back in Final Furlong ownership.
Likewise, if I give a new member a really great deal (i.e. selling a millionaire for 15k, and so on), I’m generally not impressed/happy when they turn around a month later and try and sell said horse for $300,000. While the horse may be worth that, I took a significant loss to be nice, and if the person doesn’t want the horse anymore, I’d prefer they either offer it back to me for the purchase price (assuming they made money on him racing), or offer it up to some other new member for a good price.
[quote="KindleHopeFarms"]
Not to disagree w/ you Smylie, but I actually think most of the males are colts because they want the hormones to increase competitive drive. They cut them later in life when they outlive their breeding potential in terms of highest economic efficiency ( they prefer to retire colts w/ less than 10 starts, and try to make them BIG BIG races)…
Please disagree away!!! :lol: I do in fact agree with what you said and it does make a lot of sense. The colts do need the testosterone to develop. Hence the agreement with cutting them later in life after they have developed to adulthood. If I’m reading between the lines with this and Shanthi’s latest post is that if they are 4 or older and have run in stakes and not placed it’s likely they won’t! Therefore it’s time to geld them and make excellent claimer/allowance racers out of them. Please feel free to disagree again! :lol:
Also, since we typically try to contact people via PM or IM, you may or may not know when we’ve contacted someone about their pricing. Some people may have been contacted and then chosen to ignore us.
Yes…Yes I sold a gelding for 50,000…a 5-yr old maiden gelding.
My price is defended here:
First and foremost, I think that the market to some level dictates how much a horse is to go for…if I say 100,000 and nobody bites…then I try 75,000 and nobody bites…then the market is saying…that price is too high.
Market condidtions can range from available cash to all players(which i believe is high given the costs of vet,jockey,trainer,food…etc are not factored in yet…(which i look forward to some day)…So ALOT of money that is won in purses is kept). None of this is a critique but more of an observation. Since this is a simulation game…that goal for me is two-fold build an excellent barn with champions/stud’s/broodmares…to do that you need horses and money…
Other market conditions that exsist are the amount of horses up for sell…generally this is a low, low amount…there are never really any horses up for sale on the sales page…market is favoring sellers in this case.
so i feel that in buying and selling horses the price does depend (in some ways) to the market.
As for the horse…I dont know…50,000…doesnt seem too high
Yes this horse hasnt won a race yet…But has shown some promise since moving to the Steeplechase races. Has been competitive in Allowance company. Still is a young 4 years, out of a 25K stud. Has reacted to different combinations of equipment.
I didnt have the time to really figure this horse out so I sold him.
He may or may not make 50,000 in purse money for the new owner.
There is also the chance that he wins alot more.
If the market didnt react to 50,000 then i may have brought the price down to 45, or 40 or put him in a 30K claimer race(the price I got him for)
All of those costs are lumped in as taxes. The game will not be implementing feeding at any time. Jockeys will likely charge a % of the winnings, once they’re enabled, but training will be free, as you are the trainer. Vet checks are in the works, but will only be a factor if your horse is injured.
I have to disagree with you there, for several reasons:
The gender - geldings are useful for making money, that’s it. If the horse hasn’t won a race in 26 starts on 3 different surfaces, chances are he’s never going to win a race. Some horses just aren’t cut out to win races. (Also note that this horse has been tried on every distance range with no success, and every track with no success…the only thing he hasn’t encountered is a slow track, but given his dislike for good/wet tracks, I can’t imagine more wetness would help any.)
The age - the “average” horse in FF is mature for 1-2 years. The “average” horse also matures by age 3. That means that, at most, this horse is most likely to be a hasbeen within the next 6 months…that’s not going to increase his chances of winning a race, nor will they increase his chances of winning back $50,000 anytime soon.
His race earnings - the horse has only won $21,600…that alone would be my main argument against putting him up for sale for $50,000. Even if “the market” will support such a high price for a horse who hasn’t proven he can earn it back, that doesn’t mean you should ask said price.
His bloodlines - yes, they don’t matter for breeding purposes, but they do indicate his potential, or lack thereof. His female line is nothing to write home about, and his sire is famous but not overly successful in the game.
I didn’t question you on your price because I figured any of the above things (esp. #1 and #3) were fairly obvious to all members. If someone wants to spend $50,000 on a horse who hasn’t even won half that on the track in 2 years of racing, that’s their deal and I wish them luck with it. If you had been asking any more than $50,000 (or if you’d been offering him to new members only), I probably would’ve asked you to defend yourself, and given you the above counterargument against your defense.
As a random side note, I just sold Unleashed for $15,000 to new members only.
He’s 3, a gelding, and a maiden, which were the factors I used to determine his purchase price. The other factors I used were his bloodlines (he’s 1/2 to 2 MSWs, 1 SW, and 2 SP horses, and by a famous sire), which is why he wasn’t priced at $3,500 (1/2 of his race earnings). Also, since he’s just turned 3, he’s likely still maturing, and probably has a good 18 months of solid racing in him, at least.
The catch? I lost $359,150 on him, including the money he brought in for his purchase price. He’s nominated to 8 races in 2010 (which he may never run in but did cost me money to nominate him for), as well as the Breeders’ Cup and the Breeders’ Series.
I possibly could’ve gotten someone to pay $75,000 for him based on his age/bloodlines (and potentially more if he weren’t gelded). But since he is gelded, and he doesn’t seem to be living up to his bloodlines quite yet, I don’t need him in my barn. So I figured I’d be nice and let a new member take a chance on him.
I guess that’s why I bother to “step in” when I see outrageous prices. Treat others the way you want to be treated yourself, and in my case, ask others to behave that way as well.
Shanthi, I know a lot of people really appreciate how you’ve helped them out by selling them a horse for a good bargain. I know if I hadn’t had the chance to win Spellbound from you I probably would have gone bankrupt seeing as my original starter horse couldn’t run worth s—.
But I also want to point out that there’s not too many people on this game who are that generous. I personally made many offers to larger stables in my first six months of the game following your guidelines. I generally made offers on geldings that I believed were very fair because a. they still weren’t proven after many races, or b. they were no longer performing at the level they once did. And sadly to say most of the stables I contacted never got back to me. (even to politely decline my offer or explain to me why they didn’t want to sell which I would have really, really appreciated)
So putting myself in the shoes of someone who hasn’t been in the game that long I can definitely see the chain of events that leads to this
A) you’re starter horses are no good and aren’t making any money on the track so you’re loosing money for entries B) You’re not lucky enough to get a good bargain from a generous larger stable/or that bargain horse has peaked and still doesn’t bring in any money C) You’re then forced to buy a horse for top price/slash more then they’re worth because there’s practically nothing to buy or claim and you feel you must jump at the first thing that comes along. D) That horse you just paid $40,000 for doesn’t pan out for you and you have no money and your horse(s) aren’t making you any money E) Meanwhile you really only have a couple of choices: 1. you must wait for the Mixed Auction which may be almost a year away in hopes of getting something REALLY cheap that can actually run. (which is unlikely) 2. try to sell the horses that aren’t working for you for more then they’re worth (assuming they’re really only worth 10-15k) so that you can either save up for an auction or hope to buy a better horse. (Many newbies who overprice their horses now would probably be more then happy to sell that horse for half of what they were worth if they had a 50 horse stable, but since they don’t, I think they often feel their back is against the wall)
You can also handicap the races but realistically it isn’t nearly as profitable as selling the horses in your barn that don’t want to run for you.
I’m not trying to justify or condone overpricing of horses. I’m just saying I can see why it happens and the reasons are because there aren’t enough horses. Now I don’t have any great way to fix this, although I thought your idea of possibly allowing FF horses to be claimed sounded good. I’m torn between regulating prices though because on one end I feel that letting the market take its natural course is the best way to handle things but on the other end it makes it even harder on newbies especially when it’s an established stable that is overpricing their horses. Although I do feel that people need to take responsibility for their purchases and should not complain about being ripped off if they make the mistake of overpaying for a horse. I guess in the end my motto is live and learn.
Your scenario makes sense, except for one thing. If you start with 2 racehorses, and enter them only in maiden races, you’re spending an average of $750 per race. With $50,000 to start off with, you could enter them 33 times each before you ran out of money. (Since, if you’re brand new, taxes on them will either be $0 if they stink or $5,000 if they’re good.) That’s a lot of races that you can afford. Is it possible that you get a starter horse that just can’t/won’t run and won’t earn a dime in 33 starts? Sure, but it’s unlikely. The script that generates starter horses makes sure that they are, generally, of “average” quality with ther stats…this means that they should be able to at least win a race, even if they won’t necessarily go on to become stakes winners.
Part of the challenge of this game is that you have to go out and find that horse that’s a “steal”. It’s highly unlikely that someone’s gonna PM you and say “here’s this multi-million dollar horse for $500”. If people won’t respond to PMs (many people don’t check the forum), try e-mail. If that doesn’t work, move on to another stable. There are 150 of them, and even assuming 100 of them are too small/new to want to sell horses, that still leaves a lot of stables to check out.
The main problem with newbies overpricing their horses on purpose (other than the fact that it is fleecing other members out of more money) is that generally it’s other newbies that buy the horse. Older, more experienced members generally know a horse’s worth and won’t pay for an overpriced one unless it’s for sentimental reasons.
So that continues the cycle…except that for option C it’s buying from another new player and it happens more often because all the newbies end up in an endless cycle of losing money.
Oh, I forgot newbiews get two horses now, I started off with one, and I did get the two freeby horses but they’re still only yearlings now.
I know I emailed and PM’ed large stables and only heard back from probably about 1 out of 10. I know the game isn’t suppose to be easy and trust me it isn’t I’m not complaining either. I guess my point is that a lot of big stables don’t respond, even to decline smaller stables offers, even though I’ve heard a lot of people claim that they’re open to smaller stables making offers as long as they state a price. So maybe I’m just saying everyone should try and be a little more sympathetic and at least politely decline when someone makes an offer instead of just completely ignoring them.
Most stables I know of do respond unless they’re out of town or busy. It’s the beginning of the school year for a lot of people and before this it was summer when people were on vacation. Don’t get upset with people because they’re not on their computers constantly. (Not saying you are, just saying don’t assume people are trying to be rude when they don’t answer).
There’s also a trick to asking for horses. The time of year makes a difference. Near the end of the year and at the biginning of the year stables are “culling”. That doesn’t mean every horse they are willing to let go is bad. Usually with me is I’ve lost patience and 2 yo’s are comming. I’ve sold and set to claimers my share of horses that turn out to be soild earners . It never hurts to ask but most people that’ve asked me have excellant taste in horses , and have pick horses I want to race myself. But if there asking about somrthing I haven’t decided on I’ll give them first shot at the horse before I sell it
And usually if people ask me for a horse that I’m not willing to sell or sell in their price range, I’ll take a look through my stable and suggest one or two that are. I’m not offended if they’re not interested, but if players make an effort, I’m perfectly happy to make an effort back. I know Shanthi and several other large stables operate with that method as well.
I did most of my requesting in the first 6 months I joined, which was about 7 months ago. I’m just talking from my own experience and that was that most people never responded. There were a few stables that did though and I really appreciated it
One of the things that I’ve seen lately is that I’ve entered horses in claiming races fully expecting them to be gone and lo and behold they are still in the stable the next day. When I first got here the claiming issue was one of my pet peeves as well. Personally I’d like to see a claiming race per track per race day now that we have hit the saturation point. In real life some horses are destined for the claiming ranks and once they’ve gone there few of them return to the conditioned races.
One of the things that has led to this is the cost of shipping. All of a sudden you can’t ship a horse from Woodbine to Australia to England and back to Woodbine for nothing anymore. If the horse doesn’t have a legitimate shot at winning there airfare you need to look at racing at local tracks and doing it strategically.
As far as the not responding to PM’s or e-mails I do most of my game work at “Work” >:D and if anyone were to try to contact me over the coming holidays I most likely wouldn’t respond. I’ve been ignored and I’ve moved on, it’s as simple as that.
I always try to respond when someone sends me a message, usually its to decline an offer but i always try to get back to them if i can. I also appreciate all the replies i get , the few times i have asked someone about a horse it usually worked out. Its taken me almost 3 yrs to build my stable and i hate to let anyone go, so when i do its been a long thought out process, due to sentimental reasons i have a hard time letting “my babies” go. lol. For a lot of us who cannot own a real horse anymore or ride due to injuries (aging sucks!!) we live vicariously through our game horses. (hence my sentimental snot-bubbling ((as hub calls it))over my dead filly) I love playing and some days i log in like 30 times, lol, but i digress. Just dont get down and keep a positive attitude , eventually someone will respond and you might just be surprised…
I sometimes get requests for horses and make it an absolute priority to answer them. I remember how disheartening it was as a newbie, asking around and geting an awful lot of nobody replying. But one or two stables DID help, selling me horses at reasonable prices and to them i am grateful
However i have tried to help some newbies only to find that they leave without returning loaned horses (before proper leasing was introduced) or other problems. I know other stables who have similar stories to tell. So sometimes people can be treated warily until they show they are not “here today and gone tomorrow”
I do still ask for leases or sales from other stables whose horses I admire if I think they may have any spare. I often get a positive response, sometimes a polite refusal, but i don’t take it personaliy. Like Grace I hate to part with any of my horses so I’ll lease but rarely sell. In fact I will be having some horses up for lease in the next few days at very low prices but some conditions attached - so if interested PM me and I will discuss it!
:roll: Some of these prices are feasibly within a new(ish) member’s budget, and new(ish) members aren’t generally familiar enough with the game/bloodlines to know what’s worth $100k and what’s not. So when I see a 5yo stallion who’s won 1 race as a 2yo and managed to place 3rd in 15 starts this year up for sale for $150,000, I’m concerned that someone may think “Oh wow! A stallion! Maybe I can get him qualified!” (Which is a whole 'nother sore point with me, since as Andrea/Kerry stated above, stallions are SO much easier to deal with when you don’t own them).
. It never hurts to ask but most people that’ve asked me have excellant taste in horses 
, and have pick horses I want to race myself. But if there asking about somrthing I haven’t decided on I’ll give them first shot at the horse before I sell it 