Leasing Prices

General
1

I was looking at the 3 horses currently available to lease, and it seems the prices are really high for a 3 month lease.

$50,000 for a horse that has made less than $18,000
$65,000 for one that has made $25,000

That should be a sales price, not a price for 3 months.  At these prices, the person who leases them will not make any money.  The new “owner” should be able to get at least their amount of them. 

I leased the 1st one available for $55,000 for 1 yr.  I probably will make a little money, but it is worth a shot.  She is a nice mare and has already made $$.

Can there be some kind of guidelines or a set amount?

Horses that earn $0 - 25,000 = $10,000 for a yr
25,001 - 75000 = $25000
$75,001 - 150,000 = $50,000
$150,001 & up = $75,000 flat fee

In the RW, there is no charge because the owner is happy he doesn’t have to take care of it.  My mom has leased alot of horses for a yr and longer, and she has never paid the owner anything.  The horse was well taken cared of, shown, and was actually worth more money when returned because the horse now had a bunch of wins, championships and so on.

Just my 2 cents from a 13 yr old.

2

The problem with guidelines is that no one follows them.  We’ve set such guidelines before for horses being sold, and people blow them off.

3

I’ve noticed the prices are too high at present.

But the solution is simple :
Don’t lease at a price you dont like

4

I do agree that those are a bit steep for a 3 month lease, but I also agree that if you don’t like the price others likely will not as well, no one will lease the horse, and likely the price will be lowered.

I’m sure some people would be saying from my last auction that the horse prices were a little steep, but that was mainly based on bloodlines of the broodmares/yearlings more than anything… and still tamer than what select auction prices turn out to be at times.

I’m normally very fair about purchase prices on horses, but do the research and if it doesn’t fit either the lease or purchase price I don’t think its a bad idea to make a comment about it / pm the owner, but I agree that rules will not work / be followed, and one horse may be worth more to a certain person than another because of a bloodline, or a horse from that line they own, etc.

Just my two cents.  :wink:

Lindsay

5

If you’re going to PM an owner about a price on a horse for sale/lease, please be thoughtful/tactful/etc.

ie, do not say “Do you seriously think anyone’s going to pay 1 million to lease your maiden 5yo gelding for 2 months?  You’re insane and mean and an awful person for asking me to pay that and I’m going to complain to Shanthi”

You’ll probably have better luck if you say something along the lines of “Hi, I noticed that you have a 5yo gelding up for a short term lease.  I’d love to have a chance to play around with him and see if I can figure him out, but I can’t afford 1 million.  The most I could offer is $5,000.  Will you please consider it?”

If you’re not interested in leasing the horse, then don’t bother commenting on its price  :stuck_out_tongue:.  Don’t send anyone a PM that you wouldn’t want to receive.

6

That is how I got the mare I leased.

I said that I am new and have a limited budget, the most I can afford is ******
Please let me know if that is acceptable.

It was and I got the horse.  She has a good record. 19-6-1-2-3- 150,400
So paying $55,000 for a yr on a horse that is proven, seems like a pretty good risk to me. She has done well in stakes races too.

I guess the way you protest high prices, is for people not to pay them. 

Guidelines/rules work if they are enforced.  I know it would be more coding, but if someone wanted to offer their horse for lease, it could automatically have the amount preset and then the owner would decide the time frame. Amount would be prorated depending on the time.  The minimum time should be 6 months.  You can’t see what the horse’s energy is and he could be one that requires several wks to a month off.  If you do 3 months and can only get 4 maybe 5 races, he dang well better win them or you are out a bunch of money.

My mom gave me a 7 yr old gelding, Wild Ebony.  If I want to sell him, it is back to FF only.  It is preset in his horse info.

I guess the high prices bug me because I, like other new barns, are on a limited budget and it can be depressing to not be able to buy horses at auction, or lease good horses because it would wipe out our budgets.

I have gotten lucky in that my mom has given me a few good horses to help build my stable up.  I also need to get back to doing handicapping.

This is not to disrespect anyone, it just seems that the prices are really high and out of reach for us new people.  This is on lease horses, sale horses and auction horses.

Maybe there can be an auction for just new people. New as in less than a yr playing.  That would let us get some decent horses w/out having to compete w/ barns that have a huge budget.

Just my 2 cents worth at 5am. :stuck_out_tongue:

7

That’s pretty much the only way, yeah. Either that or PM the owner of the horse…but like Andrea said, it should only be if you have an actual interest in that horse. The same goes with the timeframe of the lease - if you would really love to have the horse for a year rather than 3 months, then PM them and see if you can reach some kind of compromise.

There’s several variables that go into a horse’s value, though - pedigree and age as well as earnings. It would theoretically mean that people could only sell or lease an unraced horse by an unproven sire for a small amount, while someone might be able to sell a complete dud who just happens to be by a great sire for lots of money. Pricing is really better off being judged and negotiated by individuals.

There was one a couple of years ago, but unfortunately there was so much drama with people whining about only being able to get a certain number of horses, or trying to bend the criteria so they could get a horse, or a bunch of other reasons, that Shanthi threw her hands up and has basically refused to do anything like that again.

All I can say is be patient and the opportunities will come to you. I only started out with one horse and a couple of years later I have lots. (Well, to me they’re a lot.) It’s annoying seeing horses that are overpriced, but ultimately if it’s not one that totally excites your interest, it’s really nothing to get too worked up over. :slight_smile:

8

Not to mention that even with a “newbie” only auction, you’re going to have a wide difference in funds.  People who donate money to Shanthi would be able to pay a lot for a horse while people who can’t/aren’t interested in donating would still be left with next to nothing to spend.

9

I Understand and sympathise with you Kayleigh as I was in  the same position and with the same thoughts as you when i first started almost exactly a year ago today! After the first 6 weeks I had been a member and watched with disbelief the amounts the select auction horses sold for I decided to give up. i wrote a forum message similar to yours as well  :slight_smile: To my great good fortune some of the more established members were kind enough to contact me and persuaded me to stick with it. I also was given the chance to buy a couple of horses at newbie prices. I did stick with it and now own 34 horses. No superstars but some good solid earners. next year i expect 12 foals, so it’s worth waiting for.
Can i suggest saving for the foal auction? some are yearlings, not weanlings, and can be raced next year. The prices, if you go for created horses, can be as low as $1,000 each and some will turn out very respectable racers in due course. Also if you look like you’re going to stay a member, you may get some assistance from more secure stables. Now leasing is safer more owners may be prepared to lease privately. prior to this if you leased a horse to a new stable and they left it was possible to lose the horse altogether if you didn’t notice in time to tell shanthi about it.
I hope all goes well for you, patience truly does pay off in this game as I’m sure you already know. (donating helps too if it’s possible for you!)
Enjoy!
Penny

10

I wish I could donate, but being 13 and no job, money is hard to come by.  My allowance money goes towards horse shows and any show clothes I need or equipt for my horses.

I did get into handicapping and did fairly well.  I am going to have to do it again.

I have had several winners and most horses place in the money, so that helps.  I don’t do stakes races, just alw ones.

I have been looking at the foal auction and will probably get one.

Time to do handicapping.

11

I agree with that. If you don’t like the price, don’t pay. If the horse is price too high and no one pays, the owner doesn’t getting anything out of it either.

I’ve got a horse I’m considering selling and I am seriously thinking of slapping on a $5,000,000 (starting) price tag. I think the horse is worth the price, whether or not someone else does is up to them.

12

There are already guidelines in place for pricing of sales horses (1/2 their lifetime earnings, then adjusted for age/gender/bloodlines), and yet you still see 5-7yo geldings up for sale for $250,000 even though they only have $107,000 earnings lifetime and haven’t earned more than $20,000 in a year since they were 3. :wink:

As people have said, a horse that is unraced or lightly raced but has good bloodlines would be worth potentially far more (as a lease or sale) than $10,000 for a year.  (And vice-verse…the 107k 7yo gelding really isn’t worth $50,000 to lease for a year.)  I leased a 3yo filly who is a 1/2 sister to 3 MSW horses, and hasn’t raced much as a 3yo…so I set a $20,000 lease price on her, for a 5 month lease.  I obviously think she has the ability to earn more than that back in that time, and so did the leaser.

As other people have mentioned, I’ve done this in the past with disastrous results.  People who didn’t get horses whined about that, people who lost their “newbie” status the week before the auction whined about that, even people who did get horses ended up whining that they didn’t get the horse they want.  So basically, about half the game members ended up whining, mostly for no reason.

I also sold all of the FF-owned 7yo geldings this January for $1,000 each…it worked out semi-well, but a lot of members ignored the common courtesy rule and picked up half a dozen geldings (when they were asked to purchase 1-2), and then there were other newbies who didn’t even get 1.  And then there was the trend of tossing those geldings up on the sales page for $30,000+ 3 months later (after they’d earned less than $10,000 for their owners), simply because they could.  (They now don’t have that option, but it’s sad that I had to force them to be courteous/generous members.)

So, given those experiences, I’m not exactly eager to go out of my way to hand horses to newbies.  If there is a nice, polite, reasonable person who wants to ask me about my own personal horses, I’ll usually try and figure out some sort of deal for them.  (Because I do realize that it’s tough to “break in” to the FF world.)  But for the masses in general…no thanks.  There’s just too much drama and whining involved.

13

It is sad that has happened and has ruined it for new members like myself.  I was one the unlucky ones who didn’t get one of the geldings you offered earlier this yr.  My mom gave me hers instead.  One that she got from FF last yr in a gelding sale as a newbie.

I totally understand about the whining and how it has soured things.  To bad people can’t follow the rules.  It is the same in the real world.  I am only 13 and I I live in a small town.  It is so obvious that everyone thinks that the rules are for others to follow and that they don’t apply to them.  It ruins it for everyone else.

I am going to do some digging and see if there are some horses I can find that people want to lease at a decent price for a newbie.

Thanks Shanti for everything that you do here!

14

lol, well all you"newbies" keep a eye out. i’m a breeding fanatic and can’t race / train all of them so you will be seeing more an d more of mine go up for lease(and i’m VERY fair in what i ask for in a lease.